People are her passion…especially the little ones! Let’s get to know all about Hardin Valley Elementary’s newest head principal, Ms. Sarah Fish, in this week’s Spotlight.
Adam: Where were you born?
Ms. Fish: I was born at Bethesda Naval Hospital in Bethesda, Maryland.
Adam: Any military tie to the Naval Hospital?
Ms. Fish: Not to the Naval Hospital specifically, my dad was in the Army. We lived in Virginia at the time. When I was born they chose to drive over an hour to Bethesda because my mom had what was considered to be a high-risk pregnancy. Our presidents are treated at Bethesda Naval and it’s considered to be a well-established hospital.
There is a funny story about my birth. Bethesda Naval Hospital is in Bethesda, Maryland, which is considered the DC metro area. My family lived in Woodbridge, Virginia, about 35 minutes south of DC. My dad was in Alabama for training with the Army, and my mom was at home with my sister who is 11 years older than me. My grandparents had come down from Western Maryland to help my mom as she got closer to her due date. For a few days she had not felt me move, so she went all the way up to the hospital to meet with the doctor and he assured her everything was fine. When she woke up the next morning, she felt like something was not right and she was in labor.
They get in the car and begin driving. It was early on a Thursday morning workday, they get on Interstate 95 to head up to the Naval Hospital. Traffic was heavy. They were in stop-and-go traffic, and the story I’ve been told is that my grandfather pulled off on the side of the road and tried to get someone’s attention to help them. A tractor-trailer driver noticed and stopped to ask what the problem was. My grandfather told him my mom was in labor and he didn’t know if they were going to make it to the hospital in time. The driver was able to get on his CB radio and get an ambulance to come. The news was picked up by the radio stations who were flying overhead with their traffic helicopters, and apparently, our neighbor was listening to one of the radio stations and heard about a woman about to give birth on I-95, which was also known as Shirley Highway. They were jokingly saying that if she has the baby, and it’s a girl, they should name her Shirley. Thankfully they got to the hospital before I was born and they did not name me Shirley. haha
Adam: What was your elementary school mascot?
Ms. Fish: I went to Enterprise Elementary and we were the astronauts. We were named after the first space shuttle. It didn’t go into orbit, it was just a launch, but we were named after it. In the district where I grew up, there was a lot of loyalty towards NASA and the space program, even though we weren’t connected.
Later after the Challenger disaster, a new elementary school was built and they voted to name it Christa McAuliffe. She was an educator, but not from that area. Unfortunately, I can remember sitting in my second-grade classroom watching the disaster happen. It was a big deal and where I grew up, there was a lot of military and government contract workers. We had nothing related to NASA, but it was fun.
Adam: Where did you go to college?
Ms. Fish: I went to the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, Virginia. Jefferson’s University.
Adam: Are they accredited yet?
Ms. Fish: Oh, yeah.
Adam: Oh, were you not able to get into Virginia Tech? Ha Ha. I’m a Hokie!
Ms. Fish: Oh my goodness, I was like, what do you mean? Are they accredited? Now it makes sense.
Adam: I’ve been waiting to tease you this whole time.
Ms. Fish: I am truly a Cavalier Wahoo. I put in my staff letter, but thankfully I’m not in the same conference as Tennessee. I can cheer for both, which I think is good, because they are one of my favorites.
Adam: They are serious around here.
Ms. Fish: I’ve seen that. Our household is also a Gator household. My partner went to the University of Florida. As you know, Virginia is great for academics, but not so hot on sports unless you count lacrosse and baseball.
Adam: They are excellent at everything except football.
Ms. Fish: Ha Ha. That’s very accurate.
Adam: They are outstanding.
Ms. Fish: Yeah, absolutely, but nobody cares about that. We only care about football, and we are terrible!
Adam: It has been a rough go.
Ms. Fish: We are horrific. I think the last time we were somewhat good was right before I started and we had the Barber twins, Ronde and Tiki.
Ms. Fish: I was at the University of Virginia for four years, then I received my Master of Education degree from George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. After teaching for a few years, I went back to the University of Virginia, but not at Charlottesville and got my specialist degree for educational leadership.
Adam: Great! She’s well-educated, folks.
Ms. Fish: We taught Tech how to be accredited. Let’s just say that. Ha Ha
Adam: Ha Ha, No comment.
Adam: How many years were you in the classroom?
Ms. Fish: In my own classroom, I taught a total of three years. I then moved into other roles where I supported students within their classrooms. These were with small group instruction through problem-solving teams, response to intervention, etc. My background is in special education. I taught for three years in a preschool special ed classroom, and then our district took on this initiative when IDEA was reauthorized to look at what the whole response to intervention was. I piloted a program at my school around that. That program is still in place and is used here in Knox County as well. I then went to Florida and worked as an instructional coach supporting teachers and students while working with small groups.
Adam: So in all, how many years have you been in education?
Ms. Fish: I was in my own classroom for only three years, but in all, I have been in education for 23 ½ years because I started my career midyear.
Adam: Being in elementary and special education, did that lead you to sponsor any clubs or coach any sports?
Ms. Fish: Yes, at one school we had fun clubs for kids based on their interests, but they were also based on what our staff could do. I also ran our chess club for at least two years with my third, fourth, and fifth graders, and the funny thing about that is I had never played chess before. My partner gave me a crash course on how to play chess and how to teach it. The Chess club met every Friday afternoon, and it was great. In the end, the kids were teaching me new things. That was a lot of fun. They really enjoyed having to think through strategies, they learned to look multi steps ahead, and it brought their skills to light, which taught me a lot about who they were as learners. I could then transfer that knowledge back into the classroom. That was a lot of fun.
I’ve always worked in elementary schools where they didn’t have sports. I’m excited to be at Hardin Valley where they have a big track and field. I’ve heard they are really good, so I’ll be cheering them on, but I am not a runner myself.
Adam: Why did you go into education?
Ms. Fish: I’m not sure why, but I knew I always wanted to work with kids. When I was a freshman in high school, I had a summer job as a student assistant. I was able to work with the preschool special ed dept for their summer learning program. Essentially, I would go into a classroom with an average of 8 to 12 students with various learning difficulties. They had developmental delays, communication disorders, and physical disabilities. I would work with the teacher and their assistant, and then I was the student assistant. And I immediately fell in love and felt connected to the work that they were doing. I could see myself doing this in the future.
When I began college, I did not go to the College of Education at the University of Virginia. There was a period where I wondered if special ed was in my future, and I ended up majoring in linguistics. The reason I chose this field was because the idea of language and communication still really spoke to me. I was interested in how babies, toddlers, and school-age children develop their communication skills, and how it influences and impacts everything else. I wanted to understand the nuances of language, not just our English language, but how languages in general are formed and created. I’m so glad I chose that as my major, although it was not a popular choice as an undergrad major at UVA. It was basically a grad program, but still a BA with grad students. I still wanted to be a preschool special education teacher.
I applied and was accepted to various programs, but my parents gave me a deal which I couldn’t pass up. They said they still had some money left in savings because I had gone to a state school. If I went to George Mason and lived at home, they would pay for my master’s program. So I did that and it was great. George Mason is set up to help the working person, especially their grad programs, with classes being at night. I was able to work during the day as a teacher’s assistant in a preschool special ed classroom.
My mom worked as a teacher’s assistant in a special ed classroom at another school. She told me about a job fair in November. She thought it would be a good experience for me to make a resume and interview. Up until them, I had only interviewed for jobs at the mall or similar places, but not for professional jobs. I went to the job fair with the assumption that it would be for experience and practice. They had one preschool special ed classroom teacher position open and were immediately impressed that I was in that field of study. I told them I still had a year and a half until I graduated, but they said it was okay because they had an intent to earn [program].
They put me in touch with the principal, Betty Covington. She was a staple in the community and district and later served on the school board. I met with her, and her daughter had also gone to the University of Virginia. All she wanted to talk to me about was the University of Virginia, and then she said I was hired! I was 22 years old and while going through my college program, I was also teaching. I took everything I was learning in class and immediately implemented it in my own classroom. I had the most amazing experience.
Adam: Tell us a heartwarming story.
Ms. Fish: This was early in my career, but it has stuck with me. This was one of those pivotal moments that at the time I knew was important, but as I went into other roles in other states, this experience continued to stay in the forefront of my brain. This was pivotal. In my first job as a preschool special education teacher, the school day was a half day. I had students in the morning, and after they went home, the expectation in the afternoons was to complete sped paperwork, and go on home visits with families at least twice a month.
I had a student whose family was Kurdish, and they had fled Iraq during a time of political and social turmoil where the Kurds were essentially being exterminated. When the little girl started in my class, she was three. At the time I had three and four-year-olds, and the students were labeled with the type of developmental delay or disability they had. I had to get to know my students and figure out what their nuances were. I watched to see if there were any other medical diagnoses, and different things like that. When she came to me she was not potty trained. I was very quick to notice that she was not talking or communicating at that point, but that she was capable. She was developmentally delayed. I got to know her and her family through the home visits, and I learned the history of how they came to the United States and why. She was putting all of her faith into me, and hoping I was going to fix her child. When I would go to the home visits, her mom would always make food for me from their culture. I think this is a heartwarming and pivotal story. I stayed student-centered and focused. This was a student who I was constantly hearing about what she couldn’t do and how she wouldn’t thrive. In the two years with me, I supported her with learning adaptive skills of dressing herself, getting potty trained and supporting it through the home visits with her mom. What I learned was that her mom was doing everything for her. I discussed with her mom how she was not disabled and was quite capable of doing things for herself. We worked on this together. It was hard because I was 22 at the time with no kids. I was telling someone who had three children how to be a parent. Again, she was physically capable of speaking and we just had to help her find her voice, and we did. She became a total speaker, full phrases, and was on target. There were still some cognitive delays, but only because of the delay in learning during those pivotal years. When we met about her transition and IEP for kindergarten, we were able to place her in a typical kindergarten classroom with support. She was doing great. It was pivotal because it taught me how important it is to be the expert, but also how to be there for the student. To do what I need to do as a teacher, but also to lean into what the family is offering, by listening to their experiences, understanding what is important to them, and to get to know them.
That experience impacted me, influenced how I interact with students and families, and helped me know what I should focus on. I’ve looked back on that so many times. Unfortunately, as she went through the school system, I saw my peers not taking the time to get to know the family, to get to know her. She did have some idiosyncrasies like most kids do. She was mislabeled and misidentified, and it did impact her trajectory. That made me sad. So again, it comes back to me often as I encounter other students and other families throughout my career. A lot of my background is with Title 1, working with families who need a lot of support, who are dealing with a lot of trauma, and not writing kids off because of those things.
Adam: Tell us a heartwarming story.
Ms. Fish: This was early in my career, but it has stuck with me. This was one of those pivotal moments that at the time I knew was important, but as I went into other roles in other states, this experience continued to stay in the forefront of my brain. This was pivotal. In my first job as a preschool special education teacher, the school day was a half day. I had students in the morning, and after they went home, the expectation in the afternoons was to complete sped paperwork, and go on home visits with families at least twice a month.
I had a student whose family was Kurdish, and they had fled Iraq during a time of political and social turmoil where the Kurds were essentially being exterminated. When the little girl started in my class, she was three. At the time I had three and four-year-olds, and the students were labeled with the type of developmental delay or disability they had. I had to get to know my students and figure out what their nuances were. I watched to see if there were any other medical diagnoses, and different things like that. When she came to me she was not potty trained. I was very quick to notice that she was not talking or communicating at that point, but that she was capable. She was developmentally delayed. I got to know her and her family through the home visits, and I learned the history of how they came to the United States and why. She was putting all of her faith into me, and hoping I was going to fix her child. When I would go to the home visits, her mom would always make food for me from their culture. I think this is a heartwarming and pivotal story. I stayed student-centered and focused. This was a student who I was constantly hearing about what she couldn’t do and how she wouldn’t thrive. In the two years with me, I supported her with learning adaptive skills of dressing herself, getting potty trained and supporting it through the home visits with her mom. What I learned was that her mom was doing everything for her. I discussed with her mom how she was not disabled and was quite capable of doing things for herself. We worked on this together. It was hard because I was 22 at the time with no kids. I was telling someone who had three children how to be a parent. Again, she was physically capable of speaking and we just had to help her find her voice, and we did. She became a total speaker, full phrases, and was on target. There were still some cognitive delays, but only because of the delay in learning during those pivotal years. When we met about her transition and IEP for kindergarten, we were able to place her in a typical kindergarten classroom with support. She was doing great. It was pivotal because it taught me how important it is to be the expert, but also how to be there for the student. To do what I need to do as a teacher, but also to lean into what the family is offering, by listening to their experiences, understanding what is important to them, and to get to know them.
That experience impacted me, influenced how I interact with students and families, and helped me know what I should focus on. I’ve looked back on that so many times. Unfortunately, as she went through the school system, I saw my peers not taking the time to get to know the family, to get to know her. She did have some idiosyncrasies like most kids do. She was mislabeled and misidentified, and it did impact her trajectory. That made me sad. So again, it comes back to me often as I encounter other students and other families throughout my career. A lot of my background is with Title 1, working with families who need a lot of support, who are dealing with a lot of trauma, and not writing kids off because of those things.
Adam: What would you do if you weren’t in education?
Ms. Fish: Well, I like to tell people that my goal after retirement is to own a bed and breakfast. I laugh because while living in Oregon, my partner and I noticed in Portland that there was a lovely Victorian-style home set up as a bed and breakfast, and it was for sale. So Neal called the owners and they told him they offer courses to train people on how to be B and B owners. If we were interested, they would be happy to teach us. What they told people though was that you must do it as a partnership. One of you should be a good cook, and the other one should be good at home repairs and maintenance. Neal looked over at me and I was laughing. That wasn’t either of us. Ha Ha. I thought, I’m an okay cook, I can follow a recipe and it’ll turn out ok, but I can’t just sit there and whip up food. Neal can do some basic repairs, but he’s no Harry Homeowner. So we thought maybe that wasn’t in our cards. It’s still my retirement plan, and still what I would like to do if I wasn’t in education any longer, but I think I would have a steep learning curve.
Adam: If you’re retired, you could take a few classes. Everyone who stays is temporary, you would just need a handful of dishes. You could master five things.
Ms. Fish: Something else I would be interested in if I wasn’t in education, would be event planning. I already do a lot of event planning in school, I think that would be fun.
Adam: Who was your favorite teacher when you were a student?
Ms. Fish: This one put a big smile on my face because I think I am an anomaly on this. I can only think of one teacher that was not good. I fondly look back at elementary, middle, and high school. I think in middle school you have your growing pains, but if I could compare my middle school experience to other kids, I had a great one. My favorite teacher was my first-grade teacher, Ms. Hoffman, who was actually on maternity leave and then a personal leave for a lot of the year. But as a 6-year-old, I didn’t realize that, I just knew that I missed my teacher and I loved her.
I loved all my teachers. When I think about middle school, my orchestra teacher Ms. Simpson was the one who solidified to me that I had some talent but she said I had some moxie about it, so I needed to keep it up. I started playing violin in fifth grade and through middle school. She’s the one who got me to believe I needed to keep going with violin. This was an important part of my student career; she was amazing and a lot of fun. In high school, Mr. Sevills was a great teacher. I only had one class with him, 20th-century history. I think it was my junior year, maybe my senior year, but I was in the Model United Nations Club, and he was over it. From 9th grade through 12th grade, I was with him after school for meetings at least once a week, if not more, and we would go on trips for competitions. You get to know your teacher in a different and better way through those opportunities. He was also very pivotal in teaching me a bit about myself. He had two daughters of his own who were in their twenties at the time. I remember one time I was seeing this particular guy, and he asked me why I was dating him because I could do so much better. It’s different hearing that from someone you respect who isn’t your parent. My parents had already had this conversation with me, and I thought they didn’t understand me. He was able to have other conversations with me that also helped me realize I’m going to get what I expect from people, and if I’m setting low expectations, I’m going to get low results. He helped me understand how to change who I am to get better results from people and to think better of myself. Even into college, I would think of things Mr. Sevilles had said to me, and it would help me make decisions about myself. It’s interesting how the little things teachers or coaches do in our lives stick with us for better or worse.
Adam: For better or worse.
Ms. Fish: I think it’s important that when you’re working in education, you remember you are molding young minds.
Adam: Because it sticks with us.
Ms. Fish: Absolutely.
Adam: Is there an educator or an admin whom you’ve learned the most from in your career?
Ms. Fish: I’m a lifelong learner, I believe I am capable of learning something from everyone and every experience. With that being said, when I was thinking about this question I thought about one of my supervisors whom I worked with in Florida. We were piloting a new initiative in our school district. It was partnered with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, we were changing the evaluation system of educators. It was with the idea that educators would be evaluated by their admin and also by a peer, somebody who had been a teacher but was now serving in this role. You can imagine there were a lot of pros that came with it, but there was a lot of trepidation on behalf of educators. In the long run, it turned out that they realized this was good for us. My supervisor in that program knew that my ultimate goal was to be a building administrator. She took it upon herself to meet with me and talk to me about it. She asked me what I was doing to get there and she was the first person to really sit down and have that conversation with me. Other administrators had always talked about how I should be on this committee or do this, and I think those things are all great, but she really helped me. We talked about what to do when I went in for an interview. We discussed what to do if it was a team interview, or what I would want them to remember personally about me, but also as their instructional leader. She helped me realize that it’s not about the notes that they go back and reread, but it’s about the feeling they have about me. I think that you can be a strong educator and instructional leader, but you can be better in certain places over others and it’s important to get that across in that moment. Her name is Stephanie Woodford and she oversees the transformative schools in Pinellas County, Florida. We still keep in touch, but she was pivotal. There were other people along the way who have taught me things here and there. About a year later when I got my first school-based admin role and I feel that it was because of her mentorship.
Adam: What personal accomplishments are you most proud of?
Ms. Fish: I would say my relationship with my partner. We’ve been together for almost 18 years. We are not married, there’s no official piece of paper saying that we’re committed to each other and so I think that’s part of the reason why I’m most proud of it. Whether you have that piece of paper or you don’t, it takes commitment and it takes a lot of the same things that it takes to be a leader of a school. You have to work in a relationship, it’s a lot of give and take, a lot of compromise, and communication is key. So I’m proud of that relationship. The things that we’ve gone through together, we’ve moved cross-country twice together, and that could break some folks. Right now we’re living in a 400 square-foot extended stay room.
I’m proud of our relationship and of him too, he is always proud of me. I’m also pleased with the relationships with my family and friends. I’m proud of those personal accomplishments of being a good person for the people who need me.
Adam: What do you wish every parent knew?
Ms. Fish: I wish every parent knew that, although I’m not a parent myself, I do understand child development, and can be there for their child. Sometimes people think that if you’re not a parent, you don’t understand. That could be true in a lot of things related to parenting, but I want people to know and trust that I do have their child’s best interest at heart. Because I’m not a parent, I will listen to what they are sharing with me and what they can tell me about their child. I also want them to understand that I don’t have to be a parent to be a good school leader.
I want parents to know that their child, no matter what the report card grade is, or what the comments say, they are capable of amazing things. They may not see this until their child is 30, and that’s okay, but don’t give up on them. You are going to hit speed bumps; there’s no perfect kid. The nice thing about public education is that you have a group of people here to help you through it. Find your tribe and lean into them so you can get through it. Your child, no matter what, is capable of being an amazing adult and person that you help create and mold.
Adam: What do you wish every student knew?
Ms. Fish: I want to tell students that they will become amazing adults and that the adults around them are here to support them with that. They need to own that responsibility, more than we sometimes show or tell them. I work hard to let kids know they’re in charge of their destiny. Has anyone ever told them that they are in charge of it? They need to realize their parents are guiding and molding them. I want kids to feel empowered and to realize that they are going to make mistakes, and part of being a person is learning from those mistakes.
Adam: What’s the difference between a good and a great teacher?
Ms. Fish: My good teachers were good educators, good at their craft, and created a nice classroom environment, but my great teachers cared about me outside of the classroom. That is a lot of pressure sometimes that we put on educators. I think in our field we are expected to be there. That doesn’t mean going to every T-ball game or recital, but at least knowing that they had a T-ball game and then asking about it on Monday. I think that goes far. That to me, is the difference between a great teacher and a good teacher. The good teacher will start Monday asking about their weekends. The great teacher will greet every kid at the door and ask a specific question already knowing what their weekend was going to look like. This includes asking specific kids when they had their last meal or if they needed a snack.
Adam: What improvement would you most like to see to public education?
Ms. Fish: The funding structure has always been problematic. it was created at the time when we were a much smaller country. As you know, most public education is funded through property taxes. That can be problematic for many reasons. It can sometimes fluctuate depending on the community, and also be fixed in some ways. It does have a ceiling when you start to privatize education, though that also comes with pros and cons. I would like education to once again get to that status of being revered as the most important thing. How do we show it’s the most important thing through our funding, through our language about it, through our policies, and our expectations? It’s a tough thing though because you’re dealing with such a large country now, you’re dealing with so many various cultures and cultural beliefs, different socioeconomic levels, and needs of community. If you forget that it’s a very complex institution and try to fund it as a simple institution, it gets problematic. To fund a complex institution it requires more money, and I don’t know what the answer is to that.
Adam: What hobbies do you have?
Ms. Fish: I love to read all kinds of books except nonfiction. I like to hike. I’m not an extreme hiker, but I like to hike when I have the opportunity. I enjoy kayaking. I enjoy spending time with my friends and family.
Adam: What’s a good way for a student or a parent to spoil you
Ms. Fish: By being there. I love it when my kids show up. I love it when they smile and say good morning or hello. I like it when they want me to talk to them. It’s the same with my school families. I love it when they show up. I want to see them, get to know them, and hear their funny stories. I want to feel like a family with everyone. I don’t need anything else.
Adam: Anything else you want to say to the community?
Ms. Fish: I want to say that I’m so excited to be here. The community feels like it has a positive impact on their kids. I’m excited to learn what they wish was different, or what they wish we had or could do differently. My plan is not to come in and change things, that’s not who I am. That’s not smart. I’ll be listening, and observing. I’ll be asking everyone questions to learn more about the school because I want them to be a part of that process.
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